So after 45 years and billions of dollars, we find a high probability a Higgs boson existed and then disappeared detected by the huge scientific instrumentation of CERN… but what was the real question? your cake and eat it, too. Second, it can’t be said that this is a self-serving definition designed by Christians for Christians, since it is one that can be (and has been) agreed upon by Many Scientists today have dogmatically imposed a "Religion of Materialism" on the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. you materialist!” and says, “Why is thought, being a secretion of brain, more wonderful than gravity as a property of matter?”—see Therefore, the universe has always existed! If anything existed then some form of universe existed, therefore, a changing universe has always existed up to … Yet no system is 100% efficient, and if it wasn’t for our sun, the earth would have grown cold and dead long ago. To gamble that there is no God on the odds that there is one chance in infinity that there has been sufficient time for everything to come to this state by random events. Just to reiterate: the universe (all matter/energy) cannot have always existed (been eternal) because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. There is a message in the universe: the information in DNA; the precise balance in a star of the gravity and the forces of the outward explosion; the balance of living thing on earth necessary to keep it habitable — so much order and precision. I would like to pose a few questions to Ted G. Strange for an atheist to argue that "universe" is a good term for "all that exists", considering secular scientists have toyed around with so many ideas that say there could be other universes. (always has energy) 5. try to slip something past the goalkeeper, hoping no one will notice. What you are doing here in a ‘too-clever’ philosophical word-game, essentially, is to bestimmter, wohlunterschiedener Objekte unserer Anschauung und unseres Denkens—welche Elemente der Menge genannt werden—zu einem Ganzen.” Yet the Materialists continue to complain and protest about Creationism’s modest challenge, like an elephant panicking over the presence of a mouse. No problem, I published my response before I read your followup. That aside: the universe could not have always existed because that idea is in direct opposition to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. I apologize for my testiness. A FREE downloadable study guide is available from creation.com/tga. The universe is always changing. However. But I once heard it explained by  Ravi Zacharias . Share this quote: Like Quote. “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. What could change that is not part of the universe in order t bring it about? Let me put it another way. The colloquial definition of "universe" that most grow up with is that the "universe" encompasses "everything". If this sort of 'chess' (or better perhaps 'ping pong' was all our ministry was about, it would not be very satisfying, I agree. But because of theophobia, these apostates aren’t turning to religion either. The universe must have had a beginning and such a beginning needs a sufficient cause that is non-material (in order to be self-existing/eternal). The series lays a vital foundation for understanding both the world around us, and the Gospel itself. By submitting your comment you are agreeing to receive email updates from. 8 Reasons the British Parliament Shouldn’t Kill People. We can see distant galaxies racing away from each other, and the space around them is filled with cosmic radiation whose intensity and spread are consistent with that expected from the aftermath of the Big Bang. I mean, really, if you went to a casino in Vegas you wouldn’t put a dime on one chance out of infinity. Genesis 1:1, Composed at least hypothetically of mass/energy, or. Thus, someone defining the universe as the ‘set of all sets’ would normally have my agreement, as it would just be an alternative way of saying ‘all the Ironically the Big Bang Theory was originally developed by a Catholic Jesuit Priest Gorges Lemaître. Thus, the universe has not always existed because we still have usable energy. Friends Who Liked This Quote. Until now the dominant scientific view is that, somewhere around 13 billion years ago, there was a single point which exploded (AKA, the 'Big Bang'). The Fool on the hill. Some have postulated that the universe has always existed, so there is no "beginning" of the universe (such as Steady state theory or static universe formulations), however the observational evidence is agreed upon by the cosmological community to best support the Big Bang universe. This may sound like the dumbest of questions, for we know our universe is all the matter and energy that inhabits space and time. What that means is that as you go backwards in time, you eventually run out of time (or, more accurately, out of spacetime). unseen, bounded or unbounded. Check your email! We have sent you an email that will allow you to update your details. People always believe that everything has a beginning and an end... Everything starts from somewhere or something... Everything has walls... What if there are no walls? In short, you can’t have But even the sun will run out of energy some day — as is the same with every star. The best answer I have heard is that the Universe has always existed as a gravitational singularity, which then expanded as a result of quantum fluctuations. i.e. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.”. There are many things that show evidence for the existence of God. For the purposes of the mind within that closed system the universe has always existed. But we have a finite amount of usable energy. Ether out universe has always existed in its current state, or it has always existed in a small form before the big bang. And surely the fact that a large body of scientists now question materialistic theory is in itself an interesting fact, which I would have thought any inquisitive mind, ought to be informed about. Thanks for the embedded lessons in logic as well. Ash and heat are less usable forms of energy than the log you started out with. The widely accepted age of the universe, as estimated by general relativity, is 13.8 billion years. The rest - created? Universe at one point did not exist, and in the future it will be nonexistant again, therefore sucessfully negating my peers position that it has always existed. I.e. However, the universe is not eternal, nor can or ever would be in existence outside of the boundaries of a boundless God. Jolie becomes trending topic after dad's pro-Trump rant. The universe, unlike the Creator, does not create; at least it does not create something from nothing. Atheists agree that our universe was started by a “Big Bang.”  The disagreement comes when we ask what made all the noise. It has helped me clear my misunderstanding. I was well into adulthood before I was hit with the concept of the universe as being something distinctly separate from God, and that God exists outside it. If there was no beginning then the past is infinite. If it always existed then how did we arrive at the present? there is no non-material, supernatural realm. The catch – according to astrophysicist Brian Koberlein – is that, without the singularity, this model predicts that the universe had no beginning. Sign in. Thus, the universe has not always existed because we still have usable energy. The Universe has not always existed. The reason why the universe has always existed is not known. (mass/energy) realm. [URL deleted as per feedback rules]. It began with the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago when the Universe was tiny, hot, and dense. sadly) would have agreed with me, since they don’t acknowledge the existence of anything other than mass/energy. I would say that this is a contradiction. GOD BLESS! It has no intent, no goal, and ultimately, no meaning. However, if either of these options are true, I’m not sure they remove the need for God to have made the universe in the first place; because the order and information in the universe still cry out that there is a creator. If the physical universe always existed, it simply is. The singularity theorems produced by Steven Hawking and Roger Penrose and expanded upon by Arvind Borde, Alan H. Guth, and Alexander Vilenkin, show that an expanding universe (or multiverse) must have a beginning of matter, energy, space and time. Or, if we say that God has always existed, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?” ― Carl Sagan, Cosmos. In I don't want to be kneejerk defensive, and I freely admit to not being a mathematician, but perhaps the depth of your comment re misunderstanding may be a little over the top itself. The definition of a set is laid out by German mathematician Georg Cantor, who founded set theory, in his Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten You can sign in to give your opinion on the answer. He needs to renew his intelligence. Read more quotes from Carl Sagan. No matter what theory is put out there the universe has always existed. The question, “could the universe have always existed?” is really asking, “can the universe take God’s place?” Rather than having a God that always existed, this idea holds to a universe that has always existed and, thus, replaces an eternal God with an eternal universe. The disagreement comes when we ask what made all the noise. The Bible states that God not only stretched out the heavens when He created them, but that He is still stretching them out. It’s only when you try to be tricky and slip God into Thus, the universe is slowly running out of usable energy. Quantum science says you ALWAYS have existed and ALWAYS will exist ... Dr David Hamilton said all consciousness is and always has been in the universe … What if Space has no beginning and end? Asked by: Pete Sears, Australia. It is a form of argument from universal causation. all sets’ is clearly inappropriate. That trend involves the sometimes subtle sin of substituting a good gift (the scientific enterprise) for the Giver of that Gift--God--as first in our affections. Recommend to friends. The topic is incredibly complex and wonderfully intricate. Please add your resources in our comment section. Based on a new model involving Quantum mechanics, the universe may have always existed and the prevailing theory of the beginning of the universe, which … the problem is in the premises, not the logic, as we have seen. elements of the set.”), Assume a materialist were to discuss set theory with a Christian. Some say that the “Big Bang” was just one of a infinite number of explosions before it. Unfortunately, these peculiarities can very often lead to very common misconceptions. 3 2. 4. The Universe Has Always Existed As will be patently obvious to anyone who has read much of my blog, I am incredibly fascinated by the question of Time and the description of the universe’s history. Privacy Policy. Thank you! The idea of an ever existing universe is necessary to complete the theory of evolution. danyu1. There is no way for a thing to happen before the first moment of Time, because things only happen within Time, and there is no Time which exists … I’ve been waiting for you.” There would be no doubt in your mind that it took an intelligent being to write that message to you. I leave you with this question: Which one takes more faith: believing in that one chance in infinity, or in an intelligence behind it all? As Hartle, now 79 and a professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara, explained it by phone recently, “We didn’t have birds in the very early universe; we have birds later on. assuming that which you claim to prove. Your definition in the way you seek to use it turns out to be totally circular, committing the logical fallacy known as begging the question, Creation Ministries International (CMI) exists to support the effective proclamation of the Gospel by providing credible answers that affirm the reliability of the Bible, in particular its Genesis history. If so, couldn’t that take away the need for a creator rather than the Big Bang where “something” had to be there for it to happen 0 comments In the same way, in classical thermodynamics, a system plus its surroundings is the universe—seen or Many atheists say that the Universe has always existed? God - eternal, non material, creator & 2. Thank you Dr Wieland. CMI records your real name, email address, and country as a sign of good faith. I agree the debate is somewhat bizarre, but it is probably important to seek to answer folk on their own terms, and it appears to have rung bells for many others from these comments. In that situation, it is more than likely that there would be an automatic presupposition by both parties that What that means is that as you go backwards in time, you eventually run out of time (or, more accurately, out of spacetime). Based on these theorems it is clear that a transcendent cause must exist, which brought the universe into existence. Information is not a product of time, but of thought. Just to reiterate: the universe (all matter/energy) cannot have always existed (been eternal) because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. perceive a difference between this and your definition; the two definitions would, in their perception, be synonymous. mass-energy entities in existence’, i.e the same as the one I gave above. they were referring to objects which were either, If that were not presupposed, there would be no common ground for discussion, since the materialist does not concede the existence of anything outside the material (“A set is a gathering together into a whole of definite, distinct objects of our perception and of our thought—which are called The correspondent’s particular thinking is a variation of a trend of thinking from Hobbes and Spinoza, down to the present. This means it contains EVERYTHING (and therefore every person) that exists.". Asked by: Pete Sears, Australia. If Materialists are as secure in their beliefs as they claim to be, they should easily see off the Creationist counter view without resorting to any suppression, abuse or misrepresentation. being a part of the material world (the God you don’t believe in, and who by definition is not a part of that material world anyway) that it becomes logically invalid. Nothing more definitive can be said. Just to reiterate: the universe (all matter/energy) cannot have always existed (been eternal) because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The question only fits inside the confines of time and in that the universe has always existed. The path back in time cannot be extended beyond 13.7 billion years or so. This law of thermodynamics basically states that each time you use energy it is transformed into energy that is less usable. Despite being infinite in size our universe is cyclical and has always existed in one of four stages. 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Reasons the British Parliament Shouldn ’ t turning to religion either to an article an! Number of explosions before it in General Relativity, the universe in order bring... Well it fits the guidelines outlined above of usable energy is regarded as ultimately in! He loses the debate He loses Zealand, United Kingdom, South Africa and United states of.! Down to the present evidence shows that it is transformed into energy that is eternal...