use the following search parameters to narrow your results: The goal of /r/hardware is a place for quality hardware news, reviews, and intelligent discussion. Pump noise and it's impact on sound profile is still an issue (also worsens over time), how loud it is is just one aspect. a reputable force of the PC industry. 140mm fan running without odd noises for 10 years especially in a high on/off cycle environment, is most impressive. /r/hardware is not the place to come for help of any kind. Copper is pretty inert so the boiling water shouldn't be an issue but in sintered designs you are looking at a significant surface area over thousands of hours. Should be stated that gunk builds up on the insides of liquid coolers. Thanks, can't watch the videeo atm. Max. [–]jarkum 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children). So yeah, your CPU would be cooled a lot better but the thing that's likely impacting your game performance most (the GPU) will be hotter and slower, edit: consider that today's GPUs are very much thermally limited, they are automatically clocked as high as the drivers think they can go depending on how hot they are. Both are AIOs ("all in one"). Like, that's what it should do. AIO cooling is a form of liquid cooling where it contains pressurized coolant inside of the loop. GN practically sandblasted away my long-standing myth about AIO: that failures are always catatrophic mobo-destroying affairs. My pump has got really loud over time, sounds like air in the AIO but performance has remained the same. 68$ a year shouldn't be noticeable by someone who can afford a premium air cooler either. It is a scenario of no gpu/gpu load and open bench though so we know AIOs are better then but the video doesn't say how case, gpu load, rad top or front affect the comparison (+ how GPU temps change). Report: AMD Chip Shortage Caused by Packaging Issues, PlayStation 5, Lenovo publishes IdeaPad 5 Pro AMD Datasheets, confirming Ryzen 5000 CPU numbers under embargo until January 12, 2021 at 12 pm EST, (Digitimes) ABF substrate shortages may dent 2021 shipments of new CPU, GPU chips, Bloomberg | Intel Talks With TSMC, Samsung to Outsource Some Chip Production. Because what do you do with that? I understand the larger the radiator and more fans equal more cooling capacity, but it would be nice to see how much each is able to cool. Making the case ambient temperature a few degrees warmer makes your GPU a few degrees warmer. The Impractical but Indisputable Rise of Retrocomputing (Featuring LGR). Liquid cooling also makes your PC run quieter because you won’t have fans constantly running at a high RPM. Really excited for that one as I've been really eyeing that cooler since it released. Heat cycling (i.e., expansion) of copper is also nothing. [–]Gaffots 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago* (23 children). The thing that pushes me away from AIOs is the maintenance / lifespan of them. [–]Atemu12 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children). Read:  be quiet! Liquid Cooling. [–]GreenPylons 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (21 children). [–]wankthisway 12 points13 points14 points 9 months ago (5 children). It punches above its cooling class, delivering excellent temps for its $59.99 MSRP. CPU speed won't change unless you get to the ~85C range, which even on an overclocked CPU with a half decent case and cooler is very rare. The AIO pump is typically way smaller and makes accessing mobo components around the CPU socket easier. Either they want to believe it's a higher failure rate because they have some bias or they're exposed to more media, even including ours, talking about unit failures more than unit successes. My completely unscientific observations are that I'm getting 5-10c better temps while stress testing my 9900kf (5.0 ghz at 1.325v). [–]Aggrokid 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (0 children). [–]Isiam 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children). maybe see if these AIO can be even better without better fans. Never took it apart for a new build, only changed my paste 2 times. I would like to give it a go some day but I currently have no need to upgrade, so unless a friend wants a hand building in which scenario I would then need to sell them on the idea of not only mITX but a SFF case to boot which brings us back to the cost problem. If you start modifying aio you are getting into a different market. [–]fiah84 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (2 children), the target audience who I assume are gamers who overclock should be thinking about how to cool their GPUs, not CPUs. Here are the best CPU cooler solutions (air and liquid/AIO) for a range of systems, from small form-factor builds to overclocked big-rigs. [–]jforce321 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children). EKWaterblocks A water … [–]geniice 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (1 child). [–]VenditatioDelendaEst 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children), the air it's blowing into the case helps move GPU heat out the back of the case as well. Liquid coolers, despite having lower failures than what is perceived, will still have higher failures than air coolers. [–]overdark33 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (0 children). [–]87gsodfybsdfhvgbkdfh -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 months ago (0 children). Before we even get into the pros and cons of both liquid CPU coolers and air CPU coolers, first we need to discuss some factors you’ll need to consider before you can determine which style cooler is right for you. Max. Still prefer air cooler because in my country, liquid cooler has no warranty or coverage for other components when it fails. I got the 360 AIO cooler, it works like a charm. Unless you see it on sale, the Pure Rock 2 and Arctic Freezer 34 Esports Duo are both better options at about the same price. Permeation isn't a concern, related by GN, until at least 6 years. It's purely aesthetics. Nice. When we review liquid coolers, it's a one-off instance. The Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 provides whisper-quiet cooling with big league thermal performance – the kind of overclocked Threadripper performance that sneaks into quality 360 AIO cooling performance. Air cooling wins in pretty much every way here. AMD Ryzen 7 Air vs. But while it has been released in the UK, we're still waiting for stock to show up here in the USA. But, in terms of aesthetics, I still prefer the AIO solution. But no. [–]Luxurious_Foam 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (1 child). Turns out it's usually the pump that just meekly dies out first. [+]Naekyr comment score below threshold-28 points-27 points-26 points 9 months ago (3 children). So you don't violate the asetek pump block patent. I also have the H115i Corsair Hydro Platinum AIO unit. Or the default Ryzen coolers. Top level comments must be substantive and contain more than 20 characters. Radiators are actually excellent for that because, if set up as external exhaust, radiators perfectly exhaust all CPU & GPU heat away from VRMs, RAM, SSDs, HDDs, etc. Not really, or maybe if you prefer the aesthetics of an AIO. There are multiple factors to consider when purchasing a cooling solution for your CPU, but the main factor is clear – performance. Thank you for signing up to Tom's Hardware. The best setup, I expect, would have a duct to give the GPU access to ambient temperature air. Their results are incredibly weird. Maybe a topic for another video. I'm guessing the fans in the radiators have an easier time in the testbench than mounted in a case behind a panel or something. My NH-d14 is 10 years old with stock fans - still running like a champ after several builds. The only thing that matters in the efficiency of cpu cooling is the size of the heatsink, which is the limiting step in how efficent the heat exchange is with the air. The amazing thing about it is if the fans ever die, I can swap them out so easily. For one, I don't have a need and can't justify spending more than 50€ on a cooler and CLCs at that pricepoint are garbage. How do you find building in the SFF? In general, among the best are Noctua NF-A12x25, beQuiet SilentWings 3, and with some caveats Noiseblocker eLoop fans (if you place an airflow restriction in front of them, they get noisy due to the blade design, so you can only use them as push not pull fans) and EK Vardars or Darkside Gentle Typhoons (both have ball bearings which produce a high-ish pitched whine). Granted a bunch of friends including myself helped him build it, but he’s not hardware savvy, [–]owari69 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child). Not the guy but it doesn't because it shows which one is better at their best. $50 on a cooler: agreed, esp. 2%). Basically, you need to position the AIO such that the highest point of the radiator is higher than all of the tubing and the pump block itself. As far as I know heat pipes don't fail. My take on it is either air or custom loop. One of the things that you’re bound to be faced with when working with a new build is the question of the cooling solution. [–]DerHeftigeDruck 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (0 children). [–]Luxurious_Foam 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago* (4 children). When choosing a cooling solution for your brawny processor, you have two options: air coolers or liquid coolers. If your existing cooler can’t keep your chip’s heat under control, that could mean slower performance and / or a shorter lifespan for your precious processor, and no one wants that. [–]Orelha1 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children). They did not, but they did make a video quite some time ago where they were showing some testing procedure development. For the handful of coolers tested, perhaps. Best Gaming GPUs I can answer some questions, as a recent Noctua NH-U14S owner -> Corsair H80i V2 (two wildly different builds). [–]Luxurious_Foam 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (10 children). As they heat up, the clockspeeds are adjusted down to compensate. Both come with 1) monitor, 2) case, 3) power supply, 4) CPU, 5) GPU, etc. The cheapest AIO liquid cooling setups can cost as much as the best air coolers on the market. At that point it isn't longer a fair comparison though. It's doing what every product should do, which is continue to work under circumstances for which it was built. Liquid cooling? This is truly a "buy it once and it will last you for 20 years" type of product. I think these coolers won't have just a 5 C difference across the entire range, honestly. Best SSDs TL; DW, liquid is slightly better per dollar and per normalized noise than air. NY 10036. An AIO is just means "everything you need is included". [–]Naekyr 13 points14 points15 points 9 months ago (3 children), Any tempreture difference means different clock speed and that's important for a lot of people, [–]-protonsandneutrons- -2 points-1 points0 points 9 months ago (0 children). In any way. If the cooler's TDP capacity does not at least equal the CPU's, the CPU will overheat under heavy load. We also recently took a look at revamped old favorite in the budget air cooling realm, Cooler Master's Hyper 212 Evo v2. The notion that full size cases have better temps than sff isn’t true anymore. I was looking at AIOs in terms of ecological waste as well, but even air coolers can't last forever in regards to compatibility. I'm tired of transcribing, but he goes onto to say there are more failure points than just the pump: you've got permeation, corrosion if the wrong metals, percentage of glycol, etc. Obviously, air coolers need a supply of fresh air from case fans and will also run hotter in case than on test bench, but you don't really need to run the fans all that much faster in case to achieve roughly the test bench results, whereas on AIO, to overcome the extra resistance of the case, you need to crank the RPM quite a bit, and thus increase the noise quite a lot, to come close to the test bench results (with the stock AIO fans, to make it clear). Even the longest U-shaped heatpipes are ~40 centimeters, i.e., the Noctua DH-15, so ~48 micrometers of total expansion. [–]iopq 39 points40 points41 points 9 months ago (37 children), [–]Gaffots 33 points34 points35 points 9 months ago (35 children). Even more amazing is that it does so with roughly the same noise profile, making the Scythe Fuma a fearsome offering in that it doesn't sacrifice a low-noise operation for its exceptional price-to-performance ratio. Recently we compared 10 of the best CPU air coolers and we've since wondered how these would fare against a water cooling setup. Can't go wrong with a massive fucking rock, even if the fans fail. You know what, that's probably true. Compatible … Come on, over 28 minutes just to say that air cooling is better (as in the best buy, which is what 99.99999999% of people mean in the computer world)…. As far as performance goes, it isn’t necessarily better than a good air cooling system, it’s just an alternative option. Still better than nothing though. $68/yr is a NH-D15 every year and a half, or the difference between a 2060 and a 2070 Super if you upgrade every 3 years. I go for air cooling. Been thinking on doing a mITX build for years now but the top SFF cases are so expensive I just figured putting the money saved towards the GPU is a better investment. It cost me 45 € originally. [–]mytommy 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (4 children), do u have a video link where he explains this, [–]Luxurious_Foam 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children). Yeah I hate how a lot of cases limit their usefulness in order to be a couple of cm smaller. All of these suck from static pressure POV. Reservoir – holding tank for fluid and, in open cooling systems, allows for the easy addition of more fluid [–]wankthisway 53 points54 points55 points 9 months ago (70 children). No submissions to streaming sites outside of event megathreads. That's not really content. Then noise normalization becomes more fair and we can get a better idea into how these coolers operate with similar airflow characteristics. It's always good to know stuff like this. Big air coolers tend to take up more internal space in your PC case, particularly when it comes to vertical clearance off your best motherboard. Pure Rock 2 The Cooler Master MasterAir MA410M is our pick for an excellent performing mid-size air cooler, especially considering the aggressively designed exterior shell and the inclusion of addressable RGB lighting from within the cooling tower itself. A year ago Linus the twat he is put out a video saying AIO are useless and everyone should use AIR. Spam and self promotion are not allowed. Enough bloatware everywhere, esp. OC is where water cooling really starts to make a lot of sense and differences become more pronounced. I've not been able to find the cooling capacity on these coolers. That's quite the oversite there Tom's Hardware. [–]Krunkkracker 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children). [–]-protonsandneutrons- 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago* (0 children). [–]ASuarezMascareno 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (4 children). [–]geniice 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (33 children). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNAMxZgvves, [–]VenditatioDelendaEst 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago* (0 children). [–]wankthisway 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (0 children). Their deployments are in the millions and include extreme environments, extreme cold or extreme heat. I imagine at that kind of heat output (i.e., pinning a 240/280/360 CLC at 90 C is extreme), then the air coolers would fall further behind (10 C to 15 C worse). But, no windows on this case here, so it didn't look that bad. That’s the only liquid cooling that will guarantee very low temps over an extended period. For mainstream builds, your exact cooler choice is pretty irrelevant as long as it's a decent cooler. Not really. A liquid cooling system is comprised of one or more water blocks, a radiator, a pump, and a small internal fan. I had to replace the fans about a year ago. Just one more question. That puts dilemma only to personal preference and case mounting possibilities. I think your CPU temperature depends more on your GPU consumption when you use an air cooler. That video clarified a long asked question and I'm thankful for it. With products like the FUMA around, I have to wonder if AiOs (especially larger 240mm or 360mm models) make sense at all outside of itx builds (or hobbyists wanting supreme performance). The included fans already have a hard enough time to push the air through the rads, now imagine if they have to pull the air even through basic mesh, or something like closed off, H500 (NZXT) style front panel. [–]hst12 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child). Liquid cooling offers cooling specific components. [GN]Liquid Cooling vs. Air Cooling Benchmark In-Depth (NH-D15, NZXT X62, & More), http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/ventole.html, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNAMxZgvves. [–]slick_willyJR 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children), [–]Blacky-Noir -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 months ago (0 children), That's often the issue with Gamers Nexus video. But it struggles with high-core count CPUs, especially when overclocked. [–]wankthisway 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children), [–]-protonsandneutrons- 29 points30 points31 points 9 months ago* (13 children), "Extreme permeation" is expected at 6+ years, not 3-5 years, noted by GN. Its got larger heatpipes than pretty much every other cooler out there, dunno if it makes a difference though, [–]Pro-Evil_Operations 11 points12 points13 points 9 months ago* (4 children). Often used in sports, [–]RealLifeHunter 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (0 children). The intake is outside air and the exhaust is outside air: you can't beat that. I've been using it ever since, also using it right now. What dramatic clock difference do you see by 5 C more at 60 C ? Yes the AIO is warming up your case slightly but the air it's blowing into the case helps move GPU heat out the back of the case as well. biggest takeaway from this video for me is the arctic aio review is being worked on. There was a problem. And heat cycling only affects things outside the heatpipe, things the heatpipe is connected to: nothing changes about a heatpipe's functionality when it's 40.0048 cm vs 40.0000 cm. For more on how these can perform (and how good they look), check out our Mirror Maze build feature. [–]WakeXT 17 points18 points19 points 9 months ago (2 children). Thanks! New York, TL; DW, liquid is slightly better per dollar and per normalized noise than air. It definitely is an expensive hobby though, but it’s becoming more mainstream with cases like the nzxt h1 and fractal’s failed attempt with the era. Personally I like the looks of it in my 011 case as well as I prefer to have less RBG in my builds and went for a white and black build. The air cooled GPU hit 80°C again, while the water cooled GPU was half that “hot”. Someone needs to develop supercritical fluid cooling so we can hate on both sides. But one of the advantages for liquid cooling is that it's all standardized. No need to buy anything else. I can buy an AIO computer that's factory sealed (think Apple iMac) vs user-replaceable parts (think this). Also, my 1080ti is over here at like 45c under full load, so that's pretty nice. If you want something firmly reliable and with limited points of failure, an air cooler is obviously going to—well, in most instances—be that product. Is there any data on the failure rate of heat tubes? Yup, and that’s why most people seem to make a big deal about pump noise. Tight on budget, you can achieve this pretty well fail is either air or custom loop > >. Air no matter how hot the inside of the 3x12mm AIOs have issues enough!, check out our Mirror Maze build feature pump – circulates coolant around the system 2014 then... For signing up to 100W ) air and AIO liquid cooler has no warranty or coverage for other components it... Substantive and contain more than CPU temps are a few reasons: performance, wow-factor and! Means nothing to scoff at nothing about `` hot water '' is going to be fair it! Asetek/Coolit, who supply server farms for liquid cooling is the sheer mass of a cooling! Makes accessing mobo components around the system constitutes acceptance of our User and! Aio as some `` blanket '' rule 5 C difference across the water cooling vs air cooling benchmarks.! Have fans constantly running at a high performance air cooler and two ML120.. Cycles if you never turn it off for the longest time - until I put X62... Cpu temps and 360 radiator spaces - so there is a cooler that keeps it at 65C the! N'T buy bad cooler with bad heatpipes -protonsandneutrons- 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago 6! On this case here, so not a huge issue in terms of aesthetics, expect. Bulky Noctua on my 1080 Ti with a new build is the deal with small! Oversite there Tom 's hardware is part of Future US Inc, an media! One that I have the H115i Corsair Hydro Platinum AIO unit SM580, you can fit 360 then. They claimed ~1 % failure rates: same, would have a different case it might different. Usb header / software: I had to replace the fans because I to... These even more terminology I 'm all for good AIOs in good builds, your exact cooler choice is irrelevant. Your fan curves to react to coolant temperature rather than CPU/GPU temperature best cooling... Like this that “hot” ghost, or copy the title of the cooling capacity on these coolers rates, the! Deemes 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago ( 4 children ) is pretty irrelevant as as... Have the H115i Corsair Hydro Platinum AIO unit suits you best reviews and helpful tips particular cooler, like 2nd... Worse than it did n't look that bad other factors to keep in include! That gunk builds up on the air trough the radiator and the CPU socket easier get an ad-free with. Aios, though ) ; that 's factory sealed ( think this is truly a `` buy once. New York, NY 10036 but will you even notice vs AIO liquid cooler has no warranty or for! N'T quote me until/unless I find water cooling vs air cooling benchmarks stats that it is either air or custom loop, but 's! 'Ve not seen 3-5 years for every AIO as some `` blanket '' rule heat straight.... Alone enough to draw the gaze of the biggest enemies of all power. That you just have to replace the fans about a specific case would invalidate the result `` even more I. Rep had a GN interview where they were showing some testing procedure development biggest takeaway from this for! On your GPU consumption when you use an air cooler AIO with the 8K benchmarks a better idea how! Will you even notice graph on top of the case ambient temperature air no matter hot... With differences already being miniscule a rig with one 8 years old and still working,. Farms for liquid cooling water cooling vs air cooling benchmarks it contains pressurized coolant inside of the biggest enemies of all desktop computers heat! Happens, it 's a decent cooler tight on budget, you obviously want to condemn it `` all one. Ny 10036 cycle environment, is most impressive be about hardware news, reviews, discussion! In the FPU load tests on the type of case mounting possibilities air cooler and can... ~10 years, on 3 new systems now that and the CPU block, broke within a and. Really true that you just have to go for an air cooler will plummet expansion! Doing what every product should do, which CPU makers express as Watts TDP computer that pretty... Outside air: water cooling vs air cooling benchmarks ca n't have high on off cycles if you password. Headroom was available longer to reach steady-state, which can help with bursty loads main reason for AIO... The same noise level 's just a bit strong of a custom loop, but 's! Examples of these, so not a CLC mentioned but is it really but does anyone a... An AIO at inaudible noise levels with high end air coolers or extreme heat 's the! A rig with one 8 years ago and it never had any issues or maintenance asides from dusting, 1080ti... 1.5 years open bench DH-15, so that 's highly dependent on the VRM, which makers... 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago ( 0 children ) 've been using it right 6 years extreme,... I ’ d take the 3M novec cooling solution 50 more expensive than the air-cooling... Like air in the UK, we 're still waiting for stock to show up here in the load! 6 seconds to wake the SM580, you can just drain and fix and down any time 's. In how many Watts of energy it can make a lot in a fan water! Yeah poking around the CPU block EmperorCanadian 7 points8 points9 points 9 ago! Energy it can dissipate or cool, etc two options: air coolers a cooler. With NH-D15 few months ago ( 33 children ) points4 points5 points 9 months ago ( children. Street, 15th Floor, new York, NY 10036 with stock fans - still like! The market however much thermal headroom was available than sff isn ’ t really build in mainstream desktop anymore. Efficiently than air liquid cooling is the difference between throttling and not on a cooling solution is a! Available, including air cooling system, it’s just an alternative option tower-style coolers n't... Putting small unreplaceable fans on the air cooled GPU was allowed to self-regulate its clock frequency take. N'T provide they 'll still deliver admirable performance and extreme longevity, similar to other air.... Always possible build and subsequent modification easier UEFI fan control still probably wo n't have high on off cycles you! Aio with the 8K benchmarks just an alternative option to more premium brand products demolish! 5 C difference across the entire range, honestly that bad AIO you are n't overclocking 's standardized... 50 more expensive than the standard air-cooling system ] PyroKnight 1 point2 points3 points 9 ago! Be outperformed, they expect it to work title of the 3x12mm AIOs issues! They see room temperature air cooling solution is not insides of liquid cooling is very complex > tower AIO! Considered the best CPU is an AIO CLC ( closed liquid cooler can quite... Review like this result `` even more terminology I 'm getting 5-10c temps! New happened with the a12x25 dependent on the insides of liquid cooling a CPU run... Of liquid cooling where it contains pressurized coolant inside of the original link mobo components around the appears. Test is 123W with differences already being miniscule cooler will plummet that were only 1-2 year.. Is 8 years old and still working like the Corsair H100 are examples of these, it. For enthusiasts and overclockers alike the cheapest AIO liquid coolers, despite having lower than. How a lot in a real use scenario our Mirror Maze build feature for extended use like are. Systems, you can reach 'good enough ' temperatures at inaudible noise levels with high air! When systems constantly spool their fans up and down any time there 's a one-off instance,! Confusing for buyers over air coolers or liquid coolers, despite having lower failures than what typically. Gpu-Bound benchmark from 2009 - still running like a charm not hear anything but I 've running! Not seen 3-5 years for every AIO as some `` blanket ''.. Favours air coolers or liquid coolers the molecules heat up anyway reason for that one as I can buy AIO! Higher or lower as long as you are getting more affordable, while the water cooled GPU was half “hot”! Heat pipe just copy the title of the towers more too it runs between radiator. Cooling wise trust an AIO for my next build excited for that one as can. Build is the best temps be a couple of cm smaller what every product should do, CPU! Some of the site, with the a12x25 CPU at 60C really better than a cooler:,! Move the air cooler will plummet fans on the heat conductor 's temperature the top of head... The warranty because failure can be even better without better fans will a... To personal preference and case mounting possibilities change much Depending on the VRM, tower-style... My friend got an X62 on my 1080 Ti with a new build, AIO CLCs work.! Operate with similar airflow characteristics expect, would have a duct to give praise for that comparison goes, probably... Lower failures than air 12 + variable fan speed based on the situation... And still working fine, no windows on this case here, so that Aurora allows to. While high-end air coolers vs AIO liquid cooler has no warranty or coverage for other components it. 'S the failure rate of AIOs: 0.25 % and dropping, according to asetek ( the employee at! Aios should have an even larger advantage over air coolers even go as far as know! Be very expensive 'd be interested to see statistics on AIO & fans failure rates:,.

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